(Image credit: DIY-APE on YouTube) (Image credit: DIY-APE on YouTube) There are more specificities that DIY-APE highlights in the video, but the gist of it is that BTF 3.0 is not only a step forward — a significant one at that — but it's also a step in the right direction as it emphasizes backward compatibility, along with support for non-BTF parts with the use of adaptors. It's frankly a genius design if implemented right, but at the moment, it's just a concept.
DIY-APE actually built an entire PC with BTF 3.0 prototype hardware from Colorful and Sego, and it looks slick. It's flawless from the front, with only the most minute wiring visible at the rear, but even that's meticulously routed to appear deliberate. Some details, like how to handle fans in the BTF 3.0 spec, still need to be finalized, and DIY-APE clarifies it's up to the manufacturers' courage to go all-in on this future.
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Hassam Nasir Social Links Navigation Contributing Writer Hassam Nasir is a die-hard hardware enthusiast with years of experience as a tech editor and writer, focusing on detailed CPU comparisons and general hardware news. When he’s not working, you’ll find him bending tubes for his ever-evolving custom water-loop gaming rig or benchmarking the latest CPUs and GPUs just for fun.
Amdlova 12v, 5v and 3.3v need to die. They need to change to 36 or 48v Less cables more power. Reply
chaz_music Amdlova said: 12v, 5v and 3.3v need to die. They need to change to 36 or 48v Less cables more power. Great comment. Absolutely. Higher voltage with lower current, and let the MB have local post regulators for other voltages. Although this has issues for high number of drives or SSD (like a NAS system). Even though DIY-APE has good intentions for reducing wire clutter, he is propagating a flawed GPU power concept that the PSU industry has carried forward. With my background in power electronics, I outlined in a previous articles what the issues are: 1. The ever so bad idea on paralleling cables, especially across small connectors. This is a design goof that has been done over, and over, and over, and over … Even the NEC has rules for how much you have to derate cables when you put them in parallel, and thye aren't going through connectors. If you parallel two wires, you derate to 80%. I believe it is derate to 70% for 3 wires in parallel, and 50% rating for 4. The tables can be confusing, because they assume you are using 3 phases. 2. There exist a serious ground loop issue within the PSU and the various power supply paths looping back through the motherboard. For instance, when the GPU 12V power is brought into the GPU through the high power connector, the intended return is back through the same high power connector. But the return can also go back through the PCIe connector to the motherboard, and finally return to the PSU through the ATX connector. This is why most of the burned GPU connectors only have the 12V feed pins burned: the return can find an alternate path through the PCIe connector. If they continue to raise the GPU power with this scheme, we will see more and more motherboards damaged. Here are the sample pictures of just the 12V feed side burned. Notice on all of these the 12V wires are only damaged (by the 4 pin signal connectors): https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/uAVyHuRtHVs8iefTFsupNH-650-80.jpg.webp https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/QTebHt45YSd8Nq8oXu54q8-650-80.png.webp @valthuer (I think this was yours) https://i.postimg.cc/R0ttdFgj/IMG-8616.jpg https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/ZdZ6MHbJv6MGnR3U9YyKLS-650-80.jpg.webp https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/4VQ6en2uzoE2Nxk47ungiM-650-80.jpg.webp Here is the prior article where I pointed these out: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/amd-zapped-with-16-pin-power-connector-melting-issue-for-the-first-time-radeon-rx-9070-xt-paired-with-sub-par-psu-gets-singed Reply
Amdlova @chaz_music They can have a new market "pico psu" 48v to other voltages. some pico psus have 400w, If you need plug your older hardware get a smallest dc-dc converter. Everyone will be happy… Reply
palladin9479 Oh so the article is about nVidia's next generation GPU power connector? Amdlova said: 12v, 5v and 3.3v need to die. They need to change to 36 or 48v Less cables more power. Unfortunately it's not that easy. Step down transformers from 24 or 48v to 3/5/12 take up quite a bit of PCB room and require shielding because touching them can be rather lethal. Currently we shove all that bulky stuff into a big metal protective box called a PSU. The humans only need to then worry about some cables and not accidentally touching something they shouldn't be touching. Just to illustrate, this is a 600w DC to DC transformer. https://www.belfuse.com/products/power-supplies/dc-dc-converters/vfk600-series Reply
derekullo palladin9479 said: Oh so the article is about nVidia's next generation GPU power connector? Unfortunately it's not that easy. Step down transformers from 24 or 48v to 3/5/12 take up quite a bit of PCB room and require shielding because touching them can be rather lethal. Currently we shove all that bulky stuff into a big metal protective box called a PSU. The humans only need to then worry about some cables and not accidentally touching something they shouldn't be touching. Just to illustrate, this is a 600w DC to DC transformer. https://www.belfuse.com/products/power-supplies/dc-dc-converters/vfk600-series 48 volts is on the edge of leading to uncontrollable muscle contraction. You are fine to touch it as long as you don't grasp it. 24 volts isn't enough to do harm unless you are soaking wet. Any voltage can be dangerous but I wouldn't say 48 volts is instantly lethal. Back in college I was playing with capacitors and manually figuring out where the breakpoints were lol. I had a bunch of 50 volt capacitors and 5 – 9 volt batteries wired in series. Tapping 2 – 45 volt capacitors together stings!!! You can manually "step down" the voltage of a capacitor by charging one up and using it to charge another preferably identical capacitor. Reply
LordVile Amdlova said: 12v, 5v and 3.3v need to die. They need to change to 36 or 48v Less cables more power. Nab because it complicated the rest of the board design and subsequent cost. Reply
thestryker This spec has been pretty dumb from the start and I really wish they'd spend their efforts towards a practical redesign of the power system. This current version suggesting to plug the PSU directly in to the board is just another step backwards. Amdlova said: 12v, 5v and 3.3v need to die. They need to change to 36 or 48v Less cables more power. That would push cost onto both video card and motherboard. We've already got 12VO which dumps the 5v and 3.3v to the motherboard, but it's seen zero consumer level uptake (there's 1 good PSU and zero motherboards AFAIK). People complained about having to replace power supplies and compatibility. With burning up video cards perhaps a 48v connection could be sold to consumers, but that standard already exists in ATX 3.x and has seen zero uptake at the consumer level. In the end I think a 12v/48v PSU (using 48VHPWR for video card) would probably be the way to go, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be to maintain compatibility for older video cards for example. Reply
palladin9479 derekullo said: 48 volts is on the edge of leading to uncontrollable muscle contraction. This tells me so much … 5V can kill you, it's all about the amperage. The issue here is ~1000 watts of power, at 48v that is ~21 amps of current, more then enough to kill you. At 24v that is 41 amps, at 12v that is a whopping 83 amps, you are dead. This is why we put the power conversion electronics inside the PSU with a giant warning not to open it or go near it. The PSU then does all the heavy lifting and you get a bunch of different cables coming out that individually won't kill you unless you are trying. Reply
derekullo palladin9479 said: This tells me so much … 5V can kill you, it's all about the amperage. The issue here is ~1000 watts of power, at 48v that is ~21 amps of current, more then enough to kill you. At 24v that is 41 amps, at 12v that is a whopping 83 amps, you are dead. This is why we put the power conversion electronics inside the PSU with a giant warning not to open it or go near it. The PSU then does all the heavy lifting and you get a bunch of different cables coming out that individually won't kill you unless you are trying. 5 volts can kill you if it goes straight through your heart but on your hands it does nothing. I=V/R Edit: R=V/I … just to be clear To get 21 amps out of 5 volts you would need a resistance to be 5 volts / 21 amps or 0.23 ohms. Your hands when dry is many 100s of thousands of ohms. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=resistance+of+hands Reply
usertests Proprietary non-standard revealed Reply
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Reference reading
- https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/SPONSORED_LINK_URL
- https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/btf-3-0-reveals-the-future-of-cable-less-pc-builds-single-50-pin-connector-supports-up-to-2-145-watts-to-power-a-cpu-and-gpu#main
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