SkyBill40 tennis2 said: ATX is just an antiquated standard that hasn't been relevant in the consumer space for 15+ years. If this were so, they'd have killed it off by now. Seems your opinion is just that. Reply
tennis2 SkyBill40 said: If this were so, they'd have killed it off by now. Seems your opinion is just that. My 15 year comment was regarding the "death" of dual GPU consumer systems (SLI/Crossfire) and the turn of WiFi being widely used and included in the mobo instead of needing a WiFi card. But adoption is reliant on mobos AND cases. mATX sits in an awkward middle-ground in terms of case size in a 3-size environment. Because of that, mATX has generally served as a "budget" market. Hard to let the market speak for itself when feature-parity is unbalanced and with such a large disparity of SKUs to choose from. That also affects economy-of-scale for mATX. So you just end up giving consumers 2 choices, mITX which does have sacrifices for some, or ATX which is more than what the vast majority needs/uses. That being said, the recent trend toward >2 slot GPUs in the past 5-ish years is sure to affect something since mITX cases rarely offer >2 expansion slots, and if they do, they're 1 slot from being a mATX case. Also seeing more people putting their case on TOP of their desks (which baffles me, but whatever), but that's also tough with ATX-or-ITX landscape if you have a >2-slot GPU. In a logical world, mATX would be the most popular mobo/case size, and ATX and ITX would serve niche markets…..which is arguably opposite of the current situation. But again….we're not given a fair choice to make, so here we are. Reply
bit_user I was curious how these front fans compare to Noctua's current flagship 140 mm PWM model. While the current US price for these Nocuta fans is crazy (esp. for buying multiple of them), I think they do show what's technically possible in a 140x140x25 mm package. MetricHAVN H18Noctua NF-A14x25 PWM G2Dimensions180x180x40140x140x25Max Speed1200 RPM1500 RPMMax Airflow164.6 CFM91.6 CFMMax Static Pressure2.19 mm H202.56 mm H20Airflow per RPM per mm^24.23 x 10^-6 feet3.12 x 10^-6 feet The last row is my attempt to get a sense of how efficient these fans are, relative to their speed and size. I didn't divide out the depth of each fan. If I do that, then Noctua comes out on top, with an efficiency of 1.24 x 10^-7 vs. HAVN's 1.06 x 10^-7. However, I think depth isn't nearly as proportional to airflow as area and RPMs generally are. Also, keep in mind that this is based on each fan's claimed specs, yet we don't know how accurate those are nor how much airflow the HAVN fans would achieve through something like a case grille. HW Cooling has plenty of airflow measurements of the NF-A14x25 PWM G2 through various types & degrees of restriction, BTW. I didn't find any review of the HAVN fan, on their site. Reply
thestryker SkyBill40 said: it's also important to note that they didn't run the full setup of fans (don't know if that's on TH or HAVN for not sending enough), as HAVN recommends an intake on top and an exhaust to go along with the exhaust in the rear. That'd likely bring temps down a lot. The case comes with 2x 180mm and 1x 140mm fans so that's how the main testing was done. If you scroll down you'll see the additional fan configuration tested which had moderate CPU temperature reductions. tennis2 said: The industry needs to move away from ATX. Really thought we were making headway on that 10 years ago, then it just kinda…..poof. Now it's even worse for mATX support. Unfortunately the market just was never really there for mATX. Going smaller became the shift for most enthusiasts who cared about size and the rest largely don't care about the small size difference between ATX and mATX. The rise of M.2 storage on desktop puts mATX at a clear disadvantage as it's limited to 3 slots. I do wish there were more quality options for mATX and sometimes there are decent lower-mid range boards, but the only high end one I can think of for a long time was the X670E Gene and it disappeared off the market very quickly. Reply
thestryker While the HAVN cases are interesting in general they're just not really competitive if you take into account cost. I do like their mechanical design and hope they keep bringing new ideas to the table. I just don't see why anyone would pick this case over say a Lian-li Lancool 217 for example unless the aesthetics really spoke to them. Reply
call101010 tennis2 said: ATX is just an antiquated standard that hasn't been relevant in the consumer space for 15+ years. Not true … with GPU going three and four slots , they will cover the ATX space anyways and there is no point of wasting that space using mATX motherboard . Also , M2 slots need space and the more we have the better. ATX will be always the Enthusiast choice. Actually it is the mATX that should be removed … if you want small size go for mini ITX , and if you want more components , then full ATX …, why ? because all the slots on the mATX will be covered by the GPU anyways so it is as a mini ITX slotwise .. and 4 slots memory is also not needed , Overlockers use only 2 DIMMS. Itx however gives you shorter depth and smaller size. so the mATX is the least wanted motherboard … The only scenario that micro ATX is better is for business PC where the GPU is small but you need extra slots for other hardware and at the same time smaller PC … Reply
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Reference reading
- https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/pc-cases/SPONSORED_LINK_URL
- https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/pc-cases/havn-bf360-flow-case-review#main
- https://www.tomshardware.com
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