TerryLaze Admin said: Intel has long lacked a true rival to AMD's X3D chips that feature heaps of L3 cache, which helps boost performance in games. It seems like that is all set to change with Nova Lake, set to debut next year, reportedly featuring 144 MB of bLLC (Big Last Level Cache) that will see it race past even AMD's current-gen 3D V-Cache flagships. Intel's next-gen Nova Lake will finally tackle AMD's Ryzen X3D, but only with pricey 'K' models — 144MB Big Last Level Cache response to 3D V-Cache… : Read more Extreme doubt…unless priced at $1200…. an 8P/16E (4lp) core CPU with a big cache will already be faster enough to sell extremely well. Nova Lake supposedly tops out at 52 cores, with the flagship SKU carrying 16 P-cores, 32 E-cores, and 4 LP-E cores, split across two 28-core compute tiles Reply
usertests It's not exactly a crazy revelation, it's a premium product. TerryLaze said: Extreme doubt…unless priced at $1200…. an 8P/16E (4lp) core CPU with a big cache will already be faster enough to sell extremely well. The 144 MiB figure is for one bLLC tile. Two of them would be 288 MiB. There have been leaks suggesting dual-bLLC: https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-dual-x3d-and-intel-nova-lake-dual-bllc-leaks-surface-almost-simultaneouslyhttps://www.tweaktown.com/news/106923/intel-nova-lake-cpu-full-leak-52-cores-bllc-is-intels-answer-to-x3d-cache-lga-1954-socket/index.html Prior to those leaks, we had a leak of two single-bLLC SKUs: 8P/16E and 8P/12E: https://www.hwcooling.net/en/bllc-in-nova-lake-cpus-intels-answer-to-amd-x3d-processors/ Those two are the most likely to actually exist IMO. Reply
TerryLaze usertests said: The 144 MiB figure is for one bLLC tile. Two of them would be 288 MiB. There have been leaks suggesting dual-bLLC: Yeah, that's why the article says (that the rumor says) that only an core 5 will have the cache because it would only have one compute tile. Which is even crazier, intel would only put new tech on the highest tier. So far, leaks suggest that only the midrange 8P+16E/12E-core SKUs (Core Ultra 5) will get the bLLC upgrade, since they'll use a single compute tile. Reply
usertests TerryLaze said: Yeah, that's why the article says (that the rumor says) that only an core 5 will have the cache because it would only have one compute tile. Which is even crazier, intel would only put new tech on the highest tier. I see it as copying the 9800X3D strategy, and it may have similar pricing ($500). There's no game that needs more than 8P+16E cores. And the second tile might introduce complications (or not, who knows). But 7800X3D/9800X3D are the smash hits for AMD, and that's what single-tile bLLC would be directly competing with (or a 12-core single CCD Zen 6 version). They can make something with 16P+32E + single or dual bLLC… but honestly, maybe they shouldn't. It would be high cost, low volume, definitely approaching $1000 (single-bLLC) or even $1200 (dual-bLLC) like you say. Reply
TerryLaze usertests said: I see it as copying the 9800X3D strategy, and it may have similar pricing ($500). There's no game that needs more than 8P+16E cores. And the second tile might introduce complications (or not, who knows). But 7800X3D/9800X3D are the smash hits for AMD, and that's what single-tile bLLC would be directly competing with (or a 12-core single CCD Zen 6 version). The AMD x3d strategy hurts amd sales a lot because everybody only wants these mid priced x3d CPUs, there is no reason to copy a bad strategy. The only reason AMD has the 8core x3d CPUs (ccds) is because that's what the consoles have so that's what they have. Having the big cache on only one 8p/16e core9 cpu will be enough to upsell plenty of people into buying it and going to more cores on a desktop would make no sense at all. Maybe, big maybe, a 8p/32e core if that's somehow possible. Reply
Thunder64 TerryLaze said: The AMD x3d strategy hurts amd sales a lot because everybody only wants these mid priced x3d CPUs, there is no reason to copy a bad strategy. The only reason AMD has the 8core x3d CPUs (ccds) is because that's what the consoles have so that's what they have. Having the big cache on only one 8p/16e core9 cpu will be enough to upsell plenty of people into buying it and going to more cores on a desktop would make no sense at all. Maybe, big maybe, a 8p/32e core if that's somehow possible. The top 15 best selling CPU's on Amazon are AMD, three of which are 3D cache models. The extra cache just gives users another choice. Also, consoles do NOT use x3D. They use normal Zen 2 with a cut down FPU (for the PS5 at least). Reply
TerryLaze Thunder64 said: The top 15 best selling CPU's on Amazon are AMD, three of which are 3D cache models. The extra cache just gives users another choice. Amazon amd cpu revenue for a normal month are about 7-8milion…it's not going to tell you anything about sales, amd did 9bil revenue last quarter. https://www.accio.com/business/amazon-cpu-top-seller Thunder64 said: Also, consoles do NOT use x3D. They use normal Zen 2 with a cut down FPU (for the PS5 at least). But they do have unified memory which showed amd that copying stuff around is what slows things down the most and the big cache prevents a lot of that. I just meant that the 8core ccds in general are because of the consoles. Reply
thestryker TerryLaze said: Extreme doubt…unless priced at $1200…. an 8P/16E (4lp) core CPU with a big cache will already be faster enough to sell extremely well. The leak indicates it will only be in single Compute Tile SKUs which tells me they're shifting the way they do things. I'm betting Intel will have 4 (maybe 5) different core counts of unlocked SKUs (2 with dual Compute Tiles and 2 single). If they do this cache strategy my assumption is that the versions with cache will cost about the same as the ones with two Compute Tiles. I'd bet that manufacturing cost wise it's probably cheaper for Intel to make big cache CPUs than dual Compute Tile ones which should make this a good strategy. Keep in mind that while enthusiast sales are driven by gaming there's a very big audience that does other things that need more cores. These dual Compute Tile parts may also have a sufficiently sized L3 cache to end up being not much slower (I don't recall any leaks regarding cache size other than the "big"). If they moved from 3MB per core/cluster to 4MB that would put the top SKU at 96MB L3. Even if they don't have a meaningful gaming advantage over Zen 6 X3D they should have a multithreaded advantage over any of the single CCD parts (basing this on the 265K being faster than the 9900X in everything Intel is competitive in). That should help out on the pricing front as it is a competitive advantage. Intel has had superior platforms since 12th Gen (exception being PCIe 5.0 SSDs on 12th-14th) aside from socket longevity which I don't really think is a big selling point (though it is for some people). Reply
Thunder64 TerryLaze said: Amazon amd cpu revenue for a normal month are about 7-8milion…it's not going to tell you anything about sales, amd did 9bil revenue last quarter. https://www.accio.com/business/amazon-cpu-top-seller But they do have unified memory which showed amd that copying stuff around is what slows things down the most and the big cache prevents a lot of that. I just meant that the 8core ccds in general are because of the consoles. Not at all. First Zen 2 was made up of 2x 4-core CCX's per CCD. The 8 core CCD didn't come until Zen 3. Also Zen 2 went up to 16 cores so an 8 core variant was always part of the plan. Reply
Key considerations
- Investor positioning can change fast
- Volatility remains possible near catalysts
- Macro rates and liquidity can dominate flows
Reference reading
- https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/SPONSORED_LINK_URL
- https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intels-next-gen-nova-lake-will-finally-tackle-amds-ryzen-x3d-but-only-with-pricey-k-models-144mb-big-last-level-cache-response-to-3d-v-cache-will-only-come-on-unlocked-desktop-parts#main
- https://www.tomshardware.com
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Informational only. No financial advice. Do your own research.