RoLleRKoaSTeR I thought that in this universe we obey the laws of thermodynamics? Reply
Tanakoi RoLleRKoaSTeR said: I thought that in this universe we obey the laws of thermodynamics? You're absolutely right that a system can't use its own heat to cool itself. Kudos on picking up on that so quickly. However, the waste heat exhausted from A can indeed be used to cool B. S58_is_the_goat said: This is where i stop reading. Eh? Would a team of typewriter-equipped squirrel monkeys have kept you reading? Reply
hush now S58_is_the_goat said: This is where i stop reading. yeah cause scientists are not credible sources of information, obviously. we should definitely rely on a snakeoil salesman politician, evangelical pastor turned online health quack, or a nepo baby tech bro on a podcast to tell us what to believe instead. Reply
S58_is_the_goat hush now said: yeah cause scientists are not credible sources of information, obviously. we should definitely rely on a snakeoil salesman politician, evangelical pastor turned online health quack, or a nepo baby tech bro on a podcast to tell us what to believe instead. You have some issues there… I stop reading cuz that tech is 5-20 years away whenever it starts with "a team of scientists" Reply
t3t4 Yessss, finally. Somebody needs to do 'something' useful with all that wasted heat! It's my #1 pet peeve complaint with all these efficiency measurements. Nobody is factoring in all that heat that is literally being thrown away, or the secondary problems that all that heat creates. My workhorse PC is literally a space heater. It's great in the winter but pure hell fire in the summer. That ain't 92% efficient folks! Something useful must be done with all that heat, otherwise it's an added cost! Reply
Eximo t3t4 said: Yessss, finally. Somebody needs to do 'something' useful with all that wasted heat! It's my #1 pet peeve complaint with all these efficiency measurements. Nobody is factoring in all that heat that is literally being thrown away, or the secondary problems that all that heat creates. My workhorse PC is literally a space heater. It's great in the winter but pure hell fire in the summer. That ain't 92% efficient folks! Something useful must be done with all that heat, otherwise it's an added cost! If you are referring to power supply efficiency, that is only one component, and the waste heat is generated in the conversion from high to low voltages. Total efficiency of the computer would be an entirely different figure and would have to be based on a work output metric like Operations/Sec/W. (Or these days TOPS/W). The amount of energy available to capture isn't insignificant, but the mechanisms we have available to use that heat are not efficient themselves. Not typically worth the cost to buy the hardware to do it, and computers don't get hot enough for any practical thermal engines. You could maybe run a small sterling or piezo fan with the heat. But you would be better off just powering a normal fan and building a ducting system to expel that heat to where you aren't. On the manufacturing side, it is better to spend effort to improve the efficiency of the electronics themselves. If you look at late model laptop chips, they are amazingly efficient compared to even ten years ago. Or, in your case, choose components with less power output or set power limits. I do that sometimes in the summer. I recall when the best power supplies available were more like 70% efficient, and they had to create a certification called 80 Plus… Reply
t3t4 Eximo said: If you are referring to power supply efficiency, that is only one component, and the waste heat is generated in the conversion from high to low voltages. Total efficiency of the computer would be an entirely different figure and would have to be based on a work output metric like Operations/Sec/W. (Or these days TOPS/W). The amount of energy available to capture isn't insignificant, but the mechanisms we have available to use that heat are not efficient themselves. Not typically worth the cost to buy the hardware to do it, and computers don't get hot enough for any practical thermal engines. You could maybe run a small sterling or piezo fan with the heat. But you would be better off just powering a normal fan and building a ducting system to expel that heat to where you aren't. On the manufacturing side, it is better to spend effort to improve the efficiency of the electronics themselves. If you look at late model laptop chips, they are amazingly efficient compared to even ten years ago. Or, in your case, choose components with less power output or set power limits. I do that sometimes in the summer. I recall when the best power supplies available were more like 70% efficient, and they had to create a certification called 80 Plus… I was not just referring to PSU's, although I did use PSU efficiency numbers for example. I'm looking at total input vs total output. 100% of the heat that is thrown away is a 100% loss. It's not just a factor of electrical input consumption, but the total output verses the total input. When I have to spend 4 amps of electrical current to cool a room being heated by a 100% efficient CPU, that ain't efficient at all! At the very least, all of these coolers should have TEC's installed on them to recoup at least some of that wasted energy. 10% of something is still better then 100% of nothing. Reply
Eximo t3t4 said: I was not just referring to PSU's, although I did use PSU efficiency numbers for example. I'm looking at total input vs total output. 100% of the heat that is thrown away is a 100% loss. It's not just a factor of electrical input consumption, but the total output verses the total input. When I have to spend 4 amps of electrical current to cool a room being heated by a 100% efficient CPU, that ain't efficient at all! At the very least, all of these coolers should have TEC's installed on them to recoup at least some of that wasted energy. 10% of something is still better then 100% of nothing. 10% is optimistic. The better question is what would you do with that energy. You could run another device, with its own losses. Kind of a never ending game of thermodynamics. Not sure what you mean by a 100% efficient CPU. Reply
t3t4 Eximo said: 10% is optimistic. The better question is what would you do with that energy. You could run another device, with its own losses. Kind of a never ending game of thermodynamics. Not sure what you mean by a 100% efficient CPU. If you don't yet fully understand thermal loss is the problem, then I am not capable of explaining it further. Loss is a loss, 'anything' that mitigates that loss is a net win, and therefore, an improvement on total in verses total out. Reply
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- https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/manufacturing/motorless-solid-state-cooler-uses-heat-to-cool-itself-could-recycle-processor-heat-into-cooling-shape-memory-alloy-films-could-turn-data-center-exhaust-into-refrigeration#main
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