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salgado18 This news speak more about the survey that the card. Suddenly it is tied to the 5080? Surely someone bought it in the past months, why now? I think unless the survey methodology is made public, and is statisticaly correct, it shouldn't ever become news, as it's a potentially misleading information. Reply
palladin9479 salgado18 said: This news speak more about the survey that the card. Suddenly it is tied to the 5080? Surely someone bought it in the past months, why now? I think unless the survey methodology is made public, and is statisticaly correct, it shouldn't ever become news, as it's a potentially misleading information. Because AMD sells far less consumer GPU's then nVIdia, far far less. That causes their relative representation to be very small compared to nVidia and Intel in the randomly sampled population of over 100 million users. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam You can go to the GPU's and see the distribution. The most common are going to be the ones that OEM's like Dell and HP stick in systems, the nVidia 50 and 60 models with 8GB of VRAM and the screen resolution of 1920×1080. Instead of just reading the articles generic words it might be best to see the actual data. AMD Radeon RX 9060 XT (0.73%) AMD Radeon RX 9070 (0.17%) AMD Radeon RX 9070 XT (1.24%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 (3.55%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti (2.32%) (There are 4~5 different 4070 models) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 (0.66%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 SUPER (0.64%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 (0.73%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5060 (2.43%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5060 Ti (1.95%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5080 (1.40%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 (0.41%) But by far the biggest category is Other (9.25%) I mean Other is just crushing every other manufacturer, nVidia and AMD should totally give up selling GPU's in favor of Other GPUs. Previously the 9070XT was included in the "other" category because there wasn't enough of them surveyed to hit the top list. Notice there aren't any 9060's listed, not because they aren't in existence but because their surveyed quantity is too small to hit the named list. The way these metrics work is that you get a total list of 100+ unique vendor SKU's. You show the highest 20/30 (or whatever number your chart has space for) items with everything else counting towards a catch all category. Over time older card representation gets smaller and smaller while newer card representation grows bigger and bigger. Eventually older cards start rolling off the list opening slots for other cards to make the list. NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 (2.57%) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Ti (0.38%) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER (0.29%) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 (0.42%) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti (0.32%) We can still see some 960's and 970's on that list but no 980's but each survey has them getting smaller and smaller. While the 9070XT is a newer card and there simply hasn't been enough sold to make a dent in the total global GPU population on Steam clients. People get too myopic believing they live in a world where everyone on the planet buys a new GPU every generation. Only a very small, yet very vocal and overrepresented, subset of the global PC population buys GPU's that often. The overwhelming majority buy new stuff every four to six years, sometimes every ten years. Quite often that population buys second hand or older model unsold GPUs. Thus it's completely predictable that an lower volume model from a minority vendor would take a very long time to get enough global market share to make a dent in the statistics. Reply
salgado18 palladin9479 said: Because AMD sells far less consumer GPU's then nVIdia, far far less. That causes their relative representation to be very small compared to nVidia and Intel in the randomly sampled population of over 100 million users. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam You can go to the GPU's and see the distribution. The most common are going to be the ones that OEM's like Dell and HP stick in systems, the nVidia 50 and 60 models with 8GB of VRAM and the screen resolution of 1920×1080. Instead of just reading the articles generic words it might be best to see the actual data. AMD Radeon RX 9060 XT (0.73%) AMD Radeon RX 9070 (0.17%) AMD Radeon RX 9070 XT (1.24%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 (3.55%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Ti (2.32%) (There are 4~5 different 4070 models) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 (0.66%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 SUPER (0.64%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 (0.73%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5060 (2.43%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5060 Ti (1.95%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5080 (1.40%) NVIDIA GeForce RTX 5090 (0.41%) But by far the biggest category is Other (9.25%) I mean Other is just crushing every other manufacturer, nVidia and AMD should totally give up selling GPU's in favor of Other GPUs. Previously the 9070XT was included in the "other" category because there wasn't enough of them surveyed to hit the top list. Notice there aren't any 9060's listed, not because they aren't in existence but because their surveyed quantity is too small to hit the named list. The way these metrics work is that you get a total list of 100+ unique vendor SKU's. You show the highest 20/30 (or whatever number your chart has space for) items with everything else counting towards a catch all category. Over time older card representation gets smaller and smaller while newer card representation grows bigger and bigger. Eventually older cards start rolling off the list opening slots for other cards to make the list. NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 (2.57%) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 Ti (0.38%) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER (0.29%) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 (0.42%) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti (0.32%) We can still see some 960's and 970's on that list but no 980's but each survey has them getting smaller and smaller. While the 9070XT is a newer card and there simply hasn't been enough sold to make a dent in the total global GPU population on Steam clients. People get too myopic believing they live in a world where everyone on the planet buys a new GPU every generation. Only a very small, yet very vocal and overrepresented, subset of the global PC population buys GPU's that often. The overwhelming majority buy new stuff every four to six years, sometimes every ten years. Quite often that population buys second hand or older model unsold GPUs. Thus it's completely predictable that an lower volume model from a minority vendor would take a very long time to get enough global market share to make a dent in the statistics. Ok, but assume their margin of error is 2% (could be higher, but probably not lower). Then almost every GPU is within margin of error, and 1.5% could mean almost none or up to 3.5%. One GPU with 0.5% could have more cards in reality than one with 2%, simply because of this margin. And we don't know what the margin is or how they collect, so their statistics are almost useless for GPUs. Reply
palladin9479 salgado18 said: Ok, but assume their margin of error is 2% (could be higher, but probably not lower). It's much much lower then that, less then 1%. Handy calculator for figuring out confidence and error rate. https://uk.surveymonkey.com/learn/research-and-analysis/sample-size-calculator/ Steam currently has a sampled population of 120,000,000 ~ 132,000,000 clients and every client has the capability to participate in the survey, so unlike social studies where you can only do a few thousand at a time, they can potentially do millions of samples. At 120,000,000 population and 99% confidence level you only need 66,528 random samples to achieve an error bar of 0.5%. If they wanted a 0.1% margin of error they would need 1,641,339 random samples. 1.6 million sounds like a lot, but they have over 120,000,000 to chose from, meaning they only need slightly over 1% of their population to participate in the survey. That makes the Steam Hardware Surveys one of the most accurate statistical analysis of a randomized population on the planet. If you were to tell any medical or social scientist that they could gather near perfect data from over a million randomly sampled people from a population of over 120 million, they would consider it a perfect scenario. Yet because people have brand loyalties and preconceived beliefs of what's "correct", they mentally refuse to accept anything that would contradict those beliefs. Tell some tech enthusiast, which we all are on here, that 51.8% of "PC gamers" are using 1080p monitors, 21.2% use 1440p and only 5% use 2160p, and they would could you a liar insisting that 1080p is old news and "everyone" moved on to bigger resolutions. Tell them that over half of the PC gaming population is using GPU's with 8GB or less of VRAM, and they would again call you a liar because, as they know, all games now require 12GB or more. Present them with data and they would just call your data wrong, never stopping to question their preconceived notions and participation in a self selected community that is significantly deviated from the median. Caveat to some definitions because this is the land of "well acktually". The Steam Hardware Survey collects near perfect statistics from the population of personal computers with the Steam client installed. This doesn't include consoles, work computers, business laptops, workstations and other personal computers that might not be running the Steam client. Since Steam is the largest and most popular gaming distribution platform on the planet, it is reasonable to assume that most people falling into the "PC gamer" category would have it installed and therefor be included in the surveyed population. This is what is known as "proxy data", when one set of statistics are used as a proxy to measure something that would otherwise be difficult to measure directly. It's a very common practice in social, medical and environment sciences. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_(statistics) Reply
thestryker palladin9479 said: Steam currently has a sampled population of 120,000,000 ~ 132,000,000 clients and every client has the capability to participate in the survey, so unlike social studies where you can only do a few thousand at a time, they can potentially do millions of samples. The problem is that we don't really know any of their methodology. Over the years they've also had some anomalous statistics (seemingly due to which part of their population happened to get polled) and reporting bugs. Most of the more zoomed out things like resolution, processor brand, DRAM capacity, core count and VRAM capacity are probably correct. Without any transparency there isn't any reason to trust that the fine grained details are accurate though. Reply
KraakBal Wonder what took Valve so long to make it show up Reply
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- https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/radeon-rx-9070-xt-finally-appears-in-steam-hardware-survey-rdna-4-flagship-surprisingly-lands-just-behind-rtx-5080#main
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