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Kunal Khullar is a contributing writer at Tom\u2019s Hardware.\u00a0 He is a long time technology journalist and reviewer specializing in PC components and peripherals, and welcomes any and every question around building a PC. ","collapsible":{"enabled":true,"maxHeight":250,"readMoreText":"Read more","readLessText":"Read less"}}), "https://slice.vanilla.futurecdn.net/13-4-23/js/authorBio.js"); } else { console.error('%c FTE ','background: #9306F9; color: #ffffff','no lazy slice hydration function available'); } Kunal Khullar Social Links Navigation News Contributor Kunal Khullar is a contributing writer at Tom’s Hardware. He is a long time technology journalist and reviewer specializing in PC components and peripherals, and welcomes any and every question around building a PC.
TechieTwo THIS IS A DISGRACE AND ABUSE OF THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM. If you're buying memory and have NO CLUE what the default frequency is and that OC'ing in the BIOS is mandatory to run beyond the DEFAULT frequency, then you have zero business F'en with a PC device – PERIOD. These siren chasing bogus lawsuits should be tossed but in the U.S. the judicial system is used for Jackpot Justice to enrich paid liars and irresponsible personal behavior. Reply
thestryker This seems to be about Team Group cutting their losses due to the prior G.Skill case. While I don't particularly agree with the merits of these cases memory packaging is awful. The kit in my current system for example: Has a sticker showing 8000MHz in the upper right which is literally false. Lower right has a combination XMP 3.0 and EXPO sticker. There's nothing else on the package regarding operation and of course no documentation inside. I'm not sure of the best way to resolve this issue, but what's there now is objectively bad. Memory is also the only component which requires user intervention to run as advertised and may not run as advertised period. Reply
hotaru251 thestryker said: I'm not sure of the best way to resolve this issue just list the base spd and the oc'd spd on box. That way they cover their butts from these type of lawsuits & the tech people still know how fast they can go. Will say I don't agree w/ the lawsuit myself but i'd still never turn down free* money from the ram i bought for last build. Reply
Thunder64 hotaru251 said: just list the base spd and the oc'd spd on box. That way they cover their butts from these type of lawsuits & the tech people still know how fast they can go. Will say I don't agree w/ the lawsuit myself but i'd still never turn down free* money from the ram i bought for last build. Yup, like the $5-10 one might get from this. Reply
BROKEN 81 TechieTwo said: THIS IS A DISGRACE AND ABUSE OF THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM. If you're buying memory and have NO CLUE what the default frequency is and that OC'ing in the BIOS is mandatory to run beyond the DEFAULT frequency, then you have zero business F'en with a PC device – PERIOD. These siren chasing bogus lawsuits should be tossed but in the U.S. the judicial system is used for Jackpot Justice to enrich paid liars and irresponsible personal behavior. Agreed!!! Reply
vanadiel007 thestryker said: This seems to be about Team Group cutting their losses due to the prior G.Skill case. While I don't particularly agree with the merits of these cases memory packaging is awful. The kit in my current system for example: Has a sticker showing 8000MHz in the upper right which is literally false. Lower right has a combination XMP 3.0 and EXPO sticker. There's nothing else on the package regarding operation and of course no documentation inside. I'm not sure of the best way to resolve this issue, but what's there now is objectively bad. Memory is also the only component which requires user intervention to run as advertised and may not run as advertised period. This is no different than CPU packaging that advertises the maximum CPU boost speed rather than the base speed, or SSD's that specify the capacity based on factor 10 instead of the real factor. A 2 TB SSD of any manufacturer actually only has 1.86 GB of usable space, not 2 GB. It's a well known fact for as long as I can remember (+30 years), that memory has speed profiles, from JDEC to XMP to EXPO and often has 4 or more profiles. Without it you would have to find all the parameters and manually enter them to get it to work properly. That would include the required voltage. The advertising is not wrong. what is wrong is the buyers understanding of what they are purchasing and how to use it, because the memory will run as advertised when the speed profile is selected properly by the user. Reply
USAFRet vanadiel007 said: or SSD's that specify the capacity based on factor 10 instead of the real factor. A 2 TB SSD of any manufacturer actually only has 1.86 GB of usable space, not 2 GB. That started long before SSDs. 20 years ago, WD and Seagate: https://www.crn.com/news/channel-programs/189602434/western-digital-settles-hard-drive-capacity-lawsuit https://www.itpro.com/134970/seagate-facing-multi-million-bill-after-settling-hard-drive-lawsuit Reply
thestryker vanadiel007 said: This is no different than CPU packaging that advertises the maximum CPU boost speed rather than the base speed First of all it's absolutely different because CPUs require zero user intervention to reach advertised speeds. Secondly speed isn't listed on Intel's packaging (AFAIK AMD doesn't either, but I have none of their boxes here) anymore, and when it was it was base clock not boost clock. vanadiel007 said: SSD's that specify the capacity based on factor 10 instead of the real factor. A 2 TB SSD of any manufacturer actually only has 1.86 GB of usable space, not 2 GB. As much as I don't like this (despite storage being this way my entire PC building life) it's also not even remotely the same thing. This is an example of deceptive, but technically accurate, advertising. vanadiel007 said: It's a well known fact for as long as I can remember (+30 years), that memory has speed profiles, from JDEC to XMP to EXPO and often has 4 or more profiles. Without it you would have to find all the parameters and manually enter them to get it to work properly. That would include the required voltage. Perhaps you think it's well known, but that's hardly the case. Most people who do not have in depth knowledge assume that when they buy an appropriate component and install it that it will work as advertised. This is an accurate assumption for everything that goes into a computer except for memory that uses XMP/EXPO profiles. vanadiel007 said: The advertising is not wrong. what is wrong is the buyers understanding of what they are purchasing and how to use it, because the memory will run as advertised when the speed profile is selected properly by the user. The advertising is wrong though which is why G.Skill lost their lawsuit and Team Group opted to settle. If you look at Corsair's packaging for example they clearly use an "up to" and list XMP/EXPO in with the capacity and speed. Also to nitpick: As I said my kit of memory says 8000MHz right on the front which is literally false as the memory runs 4000MHz when the XMP/EXPO profile is enabled. Reply
hwertz TechieTwo said: THIS IS A DISGRACE AND ABUSE OF THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM. If you're buying memory and have NO CLUE what the default frequency is and that OC'ing in the BIOS is mandatory to run beyond the DEFAULT frequency, then you have zero business F'en with a PC device – PERIOD. These siren chasing bogus lawsuits should be tossed but in the U.S. the judicial system is used for Jackpot Justice to enrich paid liars and irresponsible personal behavior. I don't know about having no business about messing with a PC, period. But I also don't think a casual user would look to see what speed the RAM is running at or care as long as it works, and if they do care THEN they need to be aware of XMP etc. Agreed that this suit was bogus, if the RAM proved to be unstable at the quoted speed it's false advertising but there's no allegation of that. Reply
Elusive Ruse TechieTwo said: THIS IS A DISGRACE AND ABUSE OF THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM. If you're buying memory and have NO CLUE what the default frequency is and that OC'ing in the BIOS is mandatory to run beyond the DEFAULT frequency, then you have zero business F'en with a PC device – PERIOD. These siren chasing bogus lawsuits should be tossed but in the U.S. the judicial system is used for Jackpot Justice to enrich paid liars and irresponsible personal behavior. You shilling for the manufacturer is a disgrace mate. I have been building PCs for myself and friends since I was a teenager and always found the DRAM stick packaging speed advertisements annoying and deceptive. They put so much emphasis on the OCed speeds without bothering to clarify it’s not the out of the box speeds. Why? Because plastering big numbers is much more likely to attract casual buyers. You know it, I know it, they know it and that’s why they settled. If it was such a disgrace then the big company wouldn’t have given up. Reply
Key considerations
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Reference reading
- https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/dram/SPONSORED_LINK_URL
- https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/dram/team-group-agrees-to-usd1-1-million-dram-settlement-in-another-false-advertising-lawsuit-claimed-advertised-memory-speeds-required-bios-tweaks-and-overclocking-settings#main
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